Saturday, January 22, 2011

Batman in 2000's: Christian Bale


CHRISTOPHER NOLAN MOVIES

Christian Bale: He's this demonic beast who is capable of incredible destruction who has essentially a good heart (ChuckTheMovieGuy int. 2005)
This Batman is neither a Gothic sociopath which Michael Keaton portrayed, nor is he a depressed superhero that Val Kilmer presented or a next door guy that George Clooney played. It's a different take which brings something never seen onscreen before and also a mix of the previously shown characteristics. One must remember that there's no such thing as a "real" or definitive or "proper" Batman portrayal. Batman had many different faces and interpretations throughout the years, starting out as a dark, killing creature of the night, progressing into constantly smiling campy character ending up being a dark superhero with strong moral code

Jonathan Nolan:  Just like walking into a comic book store and seeing 8 different versions of Batman, it feels very natural to have the same sort of thing with the movies.(BOF 2008)

Bruce Timm: I’ve said it over and over again – Batman as a character is such a strong concept, he’s the kind of character that you can take him in any number of ways and it still feels right (PR 2010)

Bale's version of Batman is definitely the closest to the modern modern age Batman, with only differences being the toning down of some of the comic book abilities in order to make the character more real and less of a "mastered everything" guy.

Bale portrays the Modern Batman, intimidating with anger and force
 

Christopher Nolan: My job is to translate something abstract into something concrete (...) I wanted something serious that doesn’t take itself too seriously (Box Office Mojo 2005)
I wanted to try to do it in a more realistic fashion than anyone had ever tried to a superhero film before (Guardian.co.uk 2005)

David Goyer: It’s definitely a depiction of Batman that…I mean, it’s all filtered through Chris’ vision and he is a very naturalistic director (...) We wanted to show how did this happen and why did he choose everything. And it’s all explained very, very well and in detail. And in making that kind of approach, I think it couldn’t help but appear different because you got a real character, you know? (Rebecca Murray int 2005)


Christopher Nolan: Ive always been a big fan of the character but I am by no means any kind of comic book expert. I felt I needed a writer on the project who really knew the character, really knew the comic world (Making of Batman Begins)

Since this was a conventional approach to the character, not a Gothic/poetic presentation that we have seen in Tim Burton's movies or a Cartoon/Pop version presented in Joel Schumacher's flicks, the character was naturally the main character in the movie and was given origins, explaining the motivation and the path of a young Bruce Wayne to becoming a highly skilled warrior trying to make a difference in Gotham City.

Christian Bale: You had to get to a point where the audience would be drawn in enough to believe that this guy has gone through so much pain and anger, and then we have a really nice backstory about how he creates the Batman (Rebecca Murray int. 2005)
I was never into comic books.  I just happened to come across Frank Miller’s “Batman Year One” and have enjoyed that tone (Collider.com 2008)

Christopher Nolan: I chose Christian to play Batman based on the idea that in trying to create a realistic version of the story you need an actor like Christian who has sufficient intensity. It was very clear to me, from his other performances and from meeting him in person, that Christian has the ability to project that kind of intensity and that’s why I asked him to do the role. (indielondon.co.uk)


In the comic books, young Bruce Wayne decided to become an outlawed crime fighter days after his parents' death and almost instantly started his quest. He used his parents money to travel the world incognito at the age of 10, leaving to Tibet with fake ID and documentations in order to allow him to travel at such young age, to learn different skills from best masters in the world, (all that while studying law and acting goofy and unfocused in the University to avoid suspicions in the future. Bruce trained different things with different masters, body with someone different, mind with someone different, chemistry with someone different, guns with someone different and detective skills with someone different.

His origins and motivation in Batman Begins were altered from the comic book version. None of the above actually takes place and Bruce is shown as a troubled and flawed young man driven by selfish revenge  which he promised his parents, who comes to understand the wrongdoing of his actions and motivations. That gives the character a little more complexity and drama, giving him a character arc very early in the story. Bale's Bruce goes to Princeton and eventually drops out. He then comes back to Gotham with the intention of killing Joe Chill and then Carine Falcone. As Bale said, up to that point, he was a spoiled angry young man with no understanding of real life

Christian Bale: Having such access and such power is something that is quite unimaginable to almost anybody who's just never experienced that in their life. (...) It actually became something that made him feel completely impotent at the end of the day, that he was kind of this little prince, born with a silver spoon and just incapable of ever understanding desperation or need or any of that.(IGN 2005)
You have the younger stages I played him at age 22 as well when he's kind of lost cause and angry young man  (ChuckTheMovieGuy int 2005)


It wasn't until Rachel's rough talk that this angry young "prince" started rethinking things and changing. his way of thinking. Right after Rachel's harsh words he went on to think things over and eventually changed his entire outlook...

Christopher Nolan: Katie also has a maturity beyond her years that comes across in the film and is essential to the idea that Rachel is something of a moral conscience for Bruce. (indielondon.co.uk)

...also realizing that the gun that he was holding was a tool used to take the loved ones from him and he never used or thought of using guns again, a very believable and very good explanation for why he doesn't use firearms later on.


Confused and lost, he decides to leave everything behind and run. He leaves to Asia where he learns how regular, "real" people live, living among the poor and seeing how criminals work and think, eventually ending up in a prison but still without any purpose or meaning in life. Christian Bale describes Bruce in this phase of his life as an "older angry guy in the jail, in Bhutan, and discovering who he is and getting some sense of purpose" (Rebecca Murray int. 2005) , confirming yet again that he didn't have one before. He discovers his purpose thanks to a mysterious visitor who introduces himself as Henri Ducard but is in fact Ra's Al Ghul, who recognizes the confusion and lack of purpose in Bruce and offers him one.


After a long journey to the top of the hill, Bruce realizes wht he truly wants in life, which is  seeking the "means to fight injustice" and is then trained in martial arts by the League of Shadows. He turns against them since he refuses to kill.
It is worth nothing that the trip to the top of the mountain in order to find a mentor is an homage (one of many)  to Batman #431.


It is also worth noting that  1989's "Batman - A Man Who Falls"  was given to Nolan and Goyer by DC as a reference and was reprinted as a tie-in to Batman Begins.

The no killing rule becomes quote important in this version of the story, and both movies center around it. 

Christopher Nolan: The discussion we were having about heroism is something I’ve thought a lot about Batman because, yes, you can make him very dark but you can’t ignore the question of his heroism and his inherent ability. Otherwise, he ceases to be Batman—he becomes a different character, the Punisher, the Crow. The fans can argue about what defines Batman, but the heroism—the positivity of what he’s actually doing—isn’t up for discussion. Again, it’s not just about making him darker—it’s about making him more realistic. (Box Office Mojo 2005)

The no killing rule isn't overdone however. If the villain is too dangerous to be kept alive and taking him in appears to be a futile or impractical effort, he does what's necessary, as he did in the League of Shadows temple and with Ra's Al Ghul in Gotham.

This Batman's primary characteristics are anger, fury and obsession which he's driven by.



Christian Bale: I would always remember about the fact that this is somebody who is fanatical, you know? If you think about the obsession that somebody must have to retain the pain and anger from an incident that happened 20 years previously and is still in the forefront of his mind. You know that’s an incredible obsession. I mean, that’s an unhealthy obsession. So concentrating on the fact that he’s attempting to take his pain and his guilt and his anger and the rage and do something good with it, even though his impulses are that he does just want to rage and break bones and do damage.
I never wanted to appear to be Bruce Wayne in a Batsuit when I was playing the Batman. That he just becomes - that it is an alter ego completely.




I could not wear that suit without making myself feel like some kind of beast. And so I found it just happened really kind of organically and I just went with as much aggression and rage as I could, bordering on appearing like a bad guy when he’s got the suit on. That you should be unsure when you’re faced with him


He could do good things but man, he could just as easily flip over and become like the ultimate villain. (Rebecca Murray int. 2005)

I think certainly Bruce Wayne is obsessive. Hes driven by very negative emotions. He has a great deal of guilt and a great thirst for revenge (Charlie Rose int 2005)

I think Batman is probably more aggressive than anybody I've ever played (via christophernolan.net quotes)

When he gets into the costume, he lets himself go and releases his anger and fury, but still keeps it under control.

How much of Batman's anger is really under control by the end of this film?
Christopher Nolan:
Well, I think when it's harnessed, and that is a form of control, that doesn't mean it's not there and it doesn't mean it's suppressed - it's channeled and it's harnessed. And that to me is what keeps him as a character frightening to his opponents and all of us to some extent.



He has this rage inside himself and desire to do something emotionally and extraordinary (IGN 2005)


Christian Bale: There is the batman creature obviously which to me was kinda Bruce Wayne's therapy, hes this demonic beast who is capable of incredible destruction who has essential a good heart and has inherited philanthropy from his father which is making him pull himself back and recognize that he must do good that he cant become a force of destruction, he must have a good altruistic goal at the end of the day (ChuckTheMovieGuy int 2005)


The costume lets him vent but there's no psychosis or real duality here

Christian Bale:  I wouldn’t say he’s schizophrenic or something, like it’s an actual – or multiple personalities where he’s unable to control. He can control it, but it’s intense discipline that he’s learned to be able to function in everyday life (...) Nobody would say it would be a healthy state of mind to be in, but I’m not suggesting that he’s actually got multiple personality disorder or anything like that. (Rebecca Murray int 2005)
His negative emotions can go into that character so that he is able to function in his everyday life.(IGN int 2005)



Since Bruce Wayne, who is a very public figure due to his father's contributions to the city, came back to spotlight just when Batman appeared, he had to put on a facade and act like a dumb, spoiled and irresponsible playboy in front of the public


The real Bruce however, is described by Bale as "genuine". His business side isn't all play thought

Christopher Nolan: I see him as being like Howard Hughes, whom I wrote a script about. There’s a lot of Howard Hughes in Bruce Wayne. The bottom line on Howard Hughes is that you can read as many books that say he was a brilliant businessman as you can that say he didn’t have a clue. At the end of the day, he did extraordinary things with his money in terms of engineering and accomplishments and a self-interested direction. And I see Bruce Wayne as a very smart guy who’s going to use his money in a [similarly] extraordinary way (Box Office Mojo 2005)


Bruce Wayne training all of his life in every category like a supersoldier was great for the comic books and the previous movies, but would not make a very real character in his real life portrayal and wouldn't be so easy to be identified with. Since Bale's Bruce did not go for such training since the early age and instead on South Asian streets after he escaped school and Gotham, he doesn't have some of the abilities that the comic book Batman has. By stripping Batman from some of the abilities and making him more vulnerable psychologically, it makes the character more real and more believable.

This Batman is intelligent of course, but is also someone who still needs a kind of parental guidance.  Rachel is that to an extent, but Alfred is truly a guiding father figure for Bruce who always comforts him and help him take his decisions, and the only person that truly knows him

Christian Bale: And then you have the real Bruce Wayne who really nobody sees except for Alfred (ChuckTheMovieGuy 2005)
He's a good actor. He performs most of the time. The only person who knows who he really is Alfred.(IGN int. 2005)
Alfred has been his surrogate father since the age of 8 (CBS int)

Christopher Nolan: He's really a sort of a father, he takes over being Bruce's father effectively (Charlie Rose int 2005)

Michael Caine: I'm a father who knows how to lay a table with the knives and forks in the right places. I’m Batman’s guardian and I actually am with him (via christophernolan.net quotes)


Also, this version of Batman isn't a technical or chemical genius. He obtains all of his gadgets, costumes and accessories from military weaponry thanks to Lucius Fox who creates new costumes, weapons and adjustments for him, as well as necessary chemicals like the antidote to the fear gas ("I'm meant to understand any of that?").


To make the character more real - if he's perfect in everything that doesn't make him much real. If he still has emotional problems and needs help of other specialist in certain areas, that makes him more real, more human.
Another thing is his detective skills. He certainly has some, but nothing extraordinary or exceptional. His detective side was barely touched up upon in Batman Begins...

IESB: Are you hoping to go into the detective side of Batman?
Christian Bale:
You know what, I have no clue what we are going to be doing
(IESB 2006)

IESB: I've asked all of them and I want to ask you the same thing, Batman is a detective in the comic books, are we going to see that side of him in the next film? Are you hoping to see the detective side? 
Jonathan Nolan: Wouldn't that be great. That would be fantastic. I would love that, that would be wonderful (IESB 2006)

Christopher Nolan: We’re trying to get in stuff we couldn’t get into the first film, and the detective stuff is definitely one of those aspects. (CBR 2008)

Q: The Dark Knight is one of the best detectives in the comic book world. Are you going to address that side of Batman in your new film?
Christopher Nolan:
I can’t really say
(via moviesonline.ca 2006)

...and while we see him doing some forensic work in The Dark Knight, he still isn't shown as a deductive , dot-connecting Sherlock Holmes type, but solely relying on the help of his equipment and AI supplied to him by Lucius Fox


However, it was his, not the computer's idea to "Cross-reference the addresses. Look for Parkside, overlooking the parade." 

Fighting crime and corruption isn't all that he wants to do. In the beginning he focuses only on that because he's tryng to make a difference, but he still wants to be with Rachel, lead a life with her

Christopher Nolan: What I was looking for in the character of Rachel was somebody who would be a constant reminder to Bruce Wayne of the life that has been denied him, so I needed somebody with tremendous warmth and great emotional appeal. (indielondon.co.uk)
The feeling of the end of the film is the ending, or postponement, of the relationship with Rachel [the character played by Katie Holmes]—it’s the ending of the Bruce Wayne story and the beginning of Batman—Batman begins. (Box Office Mojo 2005)

That postponment was suppose to last until Batman makes a difference and he did almost instantly. Not all of the reaction was positive thought, and Chris Nolan explains why

Christopher Nolan: Batman is positive, but I believe that, in the first couple of years, he’s going to find an increasingly negative response from society, because the truth is that, when you have a powerful, negative city like Gotham, it didn’t become corrupt by accident, and those entrenched people are going to respond very vigorously. (BO Mojo 2005)


Once thugs and mob was afraid to get out at night and people felt a little safer, Bruce already wanted to drop the cape and lead a normal life

Christian Bale: He's evolved. It is somebody who come to have power and is now dealing with a burden of the responsibility of having that power. He's somebody who's looking for a way out, he doesn't want to keep doing this forever, it's not good for his personal life, what is good for Batman tends to be terrible for Bruce Wayne and so he's looking for an elected official who can wipe out crime and corruption and he sees that in Harvey Dent and so he sees the future of Gotham but also for him more importantly he sees the finish of Batman where he can put it aside and he can get on with his life finally (ChuckTheMovieGuy int. 2008)
In the original he was striving to have the power to make change within Gotham and now he very definitely has that so you have a burden of responsibility of someone who has that power and what he should do with it (CBS 2008)


Christopher Nolan: He has sort of moved on, he is less tortured by his distant past. So we get to torture him all fresh! He’s never entirely free from torture, one might say. He can’t mope. He can’t have a self-indulgent angst. It has to be substantial. We tried to tell a story in the first film whereby he did confront and overcome various aspects of what drives him, of that angst, and left others hanging. So in this film we try to have the way Christian [Bale] plays the character start from that point. He’s not sitting around moping about the fact his parents got killed -- we dealt with that in the first film. But he’s nevertheless a very dark character.(CBR 08)


Bruce wants to hang the cape and have a life with Rachel, until she's brutally taken away from him. Despite that, it's evident that he wanted to put Batman away for good anyway. He was willing to reveal his identity and then at the end he took a blame for Dent's murders, successfully putting Batman in limbo.

Bale's Batman has a very good and trust filled relationship with Commissioner Gordon, whom he remembers from the night when his parents were murdered (That scene was taken from and originated in Sam hamm's original script for the 1989's Batman). While some cops and Mayor's and DA's office may not approve of this cooperation, Batman is given a free hand and an open access to crime scenes and investigations.


Gary Oldman: Batman's really got to be on his game and as smart as Gordon is, he's got to be a little bit, he has to just be a little bit behind, really you see the status. It's almost like the status of the relationship. The hierarchy of the relationship, so I'm doing a bit of catch up in the scene and then to level the status, I get a line that kind of looks like I know what I'm talking about, I'm catching on (IGN 2005)

This Batman moves very much like the modern age and original Bob Kane Batman, as a shadow, appearing on the rooftops, watching over the city


Christopher Nolan: [Christian] talked a lot about having Batman crouching in the shadows, he's constantly sort of crouched on the railings or sides of buildings  very much the way he is in the comics (Making of Batman Begins)

Christian Bale: It should always be almost as if you’re witnessing a very rare and dangerous creature in the jungle or something. Like somebody that you just glimpse momentarily. (Rebecca Murray int 2005)


 ...............................................



86 comments:

  1. After reading this I feel like watching Nolan's movies again

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  2. Great writeup as always but I couldnt help but notice that unlike with others, you didnt write about the voice. Was it a conscious decision?

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  3. The quotes about the voice werent that interesting, plus I thought it doesnt have to be mentioned separately since theres already plenty of talk about this Batman being like a wild animal, so what goes with it naturally is a growl. I simply felt it didnt need to be addressed separately

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  4. Bale was perfect for Nolan's take

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  5. Bale was good for those movies but his Batman was just a musclebrain who was handed everything by Lucius and who was led by everyone, Rachel, Ra's and Alfred. No wonder he was outwitted on every turn by Joker in TDK

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    1. lol, quite true. Bruce Wayne has been around for about 50 plus years and has been surprisingly overall consistant. The simularties between the actual comic book character+the Bale movie are zero. Simply put, the source material does not support the Bale movie.

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  6. Re: anon's post above
    He may not be technical or the world's greatest detective but that doesnt mean hes not very intelligent and smart

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  7. This site is an encyclopedia. Its rare to have a site which is objective and which presents facts confirmed by parties involved

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  8. ^ "Because this city (long pause)----just showed you (long pause)--- it's full of people (long pause)---"

    I find it interesting that Nolans and Bale confirm that his detective side wasnt touched upon in BB while I always thought that he did more detective work in BB then in TDK. Sure, you can hardly call someone a detective when they just overheard someone giving a location instead of figuring it out and are getting all the info handed to them, but thats closer to at least doing "some" detective work than just putting stuff into equipment that does literally all the work

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  9. Re:post above
    Like you said, although this stuff technically can constitute as detective work, by everyones admission it couldn't even be called touching upon detective side. Its no Sherlock work. Overhearing something and beating someone up so he'll tell you the answer isn't a work of a genius detective brain and is something that everyone can do. The Scooby gang would put this guy to shame. Its not a put down. This article says it made him more real and identifiable with and I agree

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    1. Well said, there is no detective because he's just not smart enough to really even figure out himself.

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  10. It does make him more identifiable and "reachable", but also looking back I dont see where a detective stuff would fit into the movies, I think it would slow everything down and would have been out of place. I think his forensic work is all detective skills this version of Batman needs

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  11. Oh as for the first pic, well, I tried to capture the essence of the portrayal, so pissed of Bale was in place since this Batman is based on anger and fury

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  12. i love nolans batman it brings out the darkness of him and the detective side of him

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  13. The detective side? What detective side? Nolans and Bale dont deny there was none in Begins and what we saw in TDK was hardly a detective work if Fox' machines did all the work for him

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  14. well the c.nolan dont read the book and yes i know he got comics book David Goyer to halp him but he just don't get who batman is. bat is a man who lost his mom&dad and try get it back by become batman who is a idea justice & fear and make sure that no one gone same thing as he did so he like lost boy who never get good ol'day back he is the world's greatest detective the caped Crusader the dark knight.

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  15. Every Batman movie has lacked good fight choreography. Sure, they are all nice and colorful, and explosive, but none are filmed too convincing. Bale does all this training and toning and we don't even see this dude sell a decent punch. Someone get Tony Jaa on the next, guaranteed bone crunching satisfaction

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    1. Tony Jaa? That would be great, or how bout the REAL LIFE Bruce Wayne: Bruce Lee!

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  16. I thought they did very well with fight sequences in Batman Returns and Batman Forever

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    1. Batman Returns was actually fight-choreagraphed by BENNY THE JET URQUIDEZ, undefeated Martial Artist's for 26 years and for multiple wieght classes. So that may be why you like Batman Returns fight scenes, I personally didn't. I thought Batman the Movie was actually spectacular fight scenes: direct and sudden.

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  17. well i agree that they lack something in the film i allway want the batman being a badass hero

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  18. This is a great blog, and I love almost every article in it, the subject and topics that you are discussing are very profound. This article in particular is filled with great sources and quotations from the filmmakers and actors, so that's a treat to read. However, I am compelled to make one note of criticism: Your Tim Burton/Michael Keaton and Schumacher articles are richer than this one. While reading the current entry I kept feeling that you are merely describing elements from the plot or the interpretation itself, but with the previous entries there was all the power and life of an original and personal opinion that I believe articles deserve. This is your critique of the Batmen on film, I think readers want to know your opinion about it more. Another point is that I felt that you have somewhat took a cursory glance at the characterisation of Batman in Nolan's movies. Things like his 'training' (which does not diminish the polymath of the comics, but only highlights it), the focus of his 'killing' (he never killed Ra's Al Ghul if we believe the film), and some parts of his detective skills (they were, as you've said, addressed, but they have been highlighted rather than suppressed). The psychology of Batman in these films are also worth noting.

    All in all this is a great blog and I will be coming back to it in the days to come.

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  19. Thank you Nave. Now the reason why this one may not seem as full as the others is because in this article I let Nolan and Bale "do most of the talking". Its mostly quotes rather than writeup, and all because whenever I stated in my own words everything that they said, many people online disagreed with me and had their own view on what Nolan's Batman is while in fact it was often not what Nolan and Bale had in mind and contradicted what they were actually saying with the character. This way I chose to present the quotes rather than saying it in my own words to everyone can hear it right from the horse's mouth so to speak

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  20. Just one thing: when Goyer says that Batman does not change in TDK, he is not contradicting Nolan: Goyer means Batman does not change during the film (the whole sentence is about Harvey Dent, the only character with arc, as opposed to Batman and the Joker). I think that the change in Batman Nolan refers to happens between the two movies, that is what I understand from his words.

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  21. Rereading this part it seems like it was me who had contradictory statements. I did acknowledge that Goyer meant that Batman doesnt change in TDK, and Nolan was indeed talking about the change between the movies, so I dont know why I wrote that Goyer has an "opposite view"

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  22. I love your website, first of all ... and these reviews are very spot. With that said I think you could've picked a better first picture of Batman for the Bale section. I get what you're going for ... but that wasn't the best choice IMO. The rest have been awesome shots from the movies, and ones I would've used too. I love Bale's "seething demon-saint" take on Batman. Keaton's mysterious spectre / urban boogeyman and Bale's beast / demon like monster take are my favorite for the character. And it is cool how in Keaton's Batman pics he looks stoic and emotionless and Bale's Batman he's frowning or showing teeth. It's subtle but its there. Hell even Bale's Batman figures were sculpted with the pissed off faces. I also don't mind the "growl" voice for as much as people unrightfully complain against it. It's unique and its in line with the potrayl of THIS Batman. A simple whisper of the voice ala Keaton, Kilmer, Conroy would not work in this instance. Even though we as the audience know Bruce is human, he projects himself to the world as this amazing creature or monster. Thus, the growl. Plus there is some self acualization from the film maker's acknowledging the slight silliness of it when Joker mocks him in TDK in the interrogation room.

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  23. Thanks for the praises. Since youre a second person already who thinks the "introductional" pic for Bale's Batman isn't the best choice, I think I'll change it

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  24. You picked an awesome replacement picture, bro. He's snarling, which captures the potrayl of this Batman being the outlet for aggression but he's not mid sentence of dialogue thus making him look awkward. Good choice !!! Keep up the fantastic work !!! Because you literally picked the BEST shots from Keaton in B89. My favorite ones.

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  25. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  26. I really enjoyed reading these articles. I love the Tim Burton Batman movies and the Chris Nolan one's. Personally I still think Micheal Keaton gave the best portrayal of Batman, Val Kilmer was good too and Christian Bale made a good Bruce Wayne/Batman.

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  27. There is plenty of detective work done by Batman in all the films. BEGINS and TDK has quite a bit of it's fair share. I still think Bale is the best all around. He has the eyes of Keaton, in which he can speak volumes with his pupils without uttering a word of dialogue, as well as the acting chops to convey an interesting Batman ala Keaton. He has the good looks of a Kilmer / Clooney type (Bruce Wayne is supposed to be handsome afterall), but he has a quality none of the others had ... he has an overwhelming intensity and visceral physical presence none of the others had at all. He has also showed the most amount of range in his performance compared to the other three actors. And now, he will have been the first actor to deliver a broad story arc with his acting over three great films. And as of right now (don't know if Rises is a Bruce Wayne character piece or not) ... is the first actor to carry the major burden of a movie on his acting chops ... as BEGINS was primarily the story of Bruce Wayne's evolution. He carried the movie.

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  28. "Bruce trained different things with different masters, body with someone different, mind with someone different, chemistry with someone different, guns with someone different and detective skills with someone different.

    His origins and motivation in Batman Begins were altered from the comic book version. None of the above actually takes place and Bruce is shown as a troubled and flawed young man driven by selfish revenge" -END

    WELL SAID. VERY WELL SAID. THIS FILM HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH BRUCE WAYNE OR BATMAN. BRUCE WAYNE HAS A VERY SPECIFIC CHARACTER AND PERSONALITY THAT'S PROVEN SUCCESSFUL FOR OVER 60 YEARS!!!

    YOU'D THINK WITH SO MUCH MATERIAL AVAILABLE ON HIM THEY WOULD GET IT RIGHT, BUT THEN AGAIN THESE FILM MAKERS ARE NOT PROFESSIONALS WHO DO PROPER RESEARCH ON A SUBJECT.

    BASICALLY IT COMES DOWN TO 3 FACTS:

    FACT 1) THE BRUCE WAYNE CHARACTER HAS BEEN REPORTED WITH A CERTAIN PERSONALITY OR PSYCHE TO ACCOMPLISH GREAT THINGS ALL ON HIS OWN FOR A MATTER OF 60 LONG YEARS.

    FACT 2) ALTHOUGH THERE HAVE BEEN DOZENS OF WRITERS AND ARTIST ALONG THOSE 60 YEARS, NEVERTHELESS THE PORTRAYAL OF WAYNE'S CHARACTER IS ALWAYS CONSISTENT FOR 60 YEARS PLUS (SAVE FOR A FEW DEVIATIONS THAT AMOUNT TO 10%).

    FACT 3) BALE'S CHARACTER CANNOT AT ALL SAY WHAT BRUCE WAYNE HAS SAID: "I DO NOTHING THAT A MAN OF UNLIMITED FUNDS, SUPERB PHYSICAL STAMINA AND MAXIMUM SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE COULD NOT DO" -Bruce Wayne.

    One guy can say that, one guy can't: guess which- Bruce Wayne or Bale's invented character?

    batmanpp@yahoo.com

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    1. Are you a fan of the Nolan movies? or whos was your favorite batman/bruce wayne.

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    2. Hey there friend, Sorry for the extreme late response.
      The very first guy to put on the Batman costume wasn't too bad, as they DIRECTLY adapted the comic book virtually. Other than him, Batman The Movie is probably the all time best thanks to Tim Burton, who read a load of Batman comic books, including DKR+the Killing Joke.

      Tim Burtons film is where BaleBegins rips off the costume style, thus without BatmanThe Movie there is no BaleBegins. Tim Burton captured the general essence of Batman the most. Keatons face didn't look at all like BW, but in costume you knew he was Batman: One evil dude not to be messed with, and he doesn't need 2 shout 2 convince you. He was a lone wolf who saw many hard things but took care of it by himself. His costume was also about 85-90% the actual costume in the comics.

      Adam West thing did a great visual job as most already know, but he was mocking Batmans heroic nobility. He didn't lie mind you, that's literally how Batman kinda behaves in the comix (long before AdamWest) and had acted that way from the 40's all the way to the 90's. But AdamWest was poking fun at BruceWaynes positive attitude and that show is a disrespectful piece of crap. Clooney was literally like Clooney in Burtons costume, it was basically the real George Clooney. Kilmer was like a nobody, many even 4get he donned Burtons costume.

      The first two Batmans visually adapted him correctly, then Burton came and had deviated by 10%, after him everything turned to shit. lol

      Keaton is so far the best definitely, though he didn't look like Waynes physical face, he imitated his personality perfectly. For those new to Bruce Wayne+are too lazy to pik up a comic book; Bruce Wayne is like combining SPOCK (the real Spock) and Lee in ENTER THE DRAGON. Combine those two and ya got the jist of Bruce Wayne.
      Thanks for chatting, friend.
      batmanpp@yahoo.com

      Delete
  29. ^ What are you talking about? Maybe his origins were altered but Bale is exactly like Batman from comics

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    1. what are am I talking about? Did you really ask that after I JUST posted the 3 facts that shut Bale down? Hilarious how you didn't addressed the 3 facts but asked a silly question instead.

      batmanpp@yahoo.com

      (I even ended that list with a question that actually answered your question. )

      Delete
  30. But your post didnt answer anything. All 3 points just say hes not like comic book Wayne, doesnt say how except for one point which says he wouldnt say a certain sentence. Bale might not have the detective or chemical skills, but his personality is like in comics

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    1. Hi Anonymous,

      Thanks for the response. Since you acknowledge how Fact3 proves Bale is not Bruce Wayne the character although you thought the other two points didn't say how, I guess I'll retierate- Fact1 literally states "PSYCHE TO ACCOMPLISH GREAT THINGS ALL ON HIS OWN".

      So two out of the 3 demonstrate how Bale is nothing like Bruce Wayne. Bale cannot accomplish great things, he's a normal guy like you or me. So Fact 1 already answers your question very simply. Fact1 also states 'all on his own' which FURTHER demonstrates Bale's major inaccuracy. Bale's personality requires the help of Katie Holmes, Freeman, etc. So Fact1 and Fact3 answer your question. Bruce Wayne's personality is completely different from that, he NEVER asks for anyone's help and he'll never accept anyone's help, he's like a loner who helps the underdog.

      Fact2 ALSO answers your question because without Fact2 Fact1+3 are not as significant. Fact2 essentially supports the other two facts.

      Also you admitted that Bale does "not have the detective or chemical skills" yet you contradicted that admission with Bale's "personality is like in comics". If you're not understanding how that is a complete contradiction then that's weird.

      It's weirder in trying to explain it, like explaining subtraction and addition but I'll try: If Einstein couldn't do science then he no longer has the personality required to become Einstein, he'd be a different person. If Stephen Hawking wasn't a sharp scientific mind he would no longer have the psyche of Hawking. If Sherlock Holmes was not a genius detective he literally could no longer have the mind of Sherlock Holmes.

      Essentially your smarts and your keen sharp analytical mind SHOWS THE WAY YOU THINK. So Bale cannot think like Bruce Wayne, he doesn't have the psyche of a sharp mind, nor does he have the psyche of a complete loner, nor does he have the psyche of an independent individual (in fact Bale is dependent on others). These are not minor parts of Bruce Wayne but MAJOR parts that MAKE him the character.

      It's like saying you made a movie of Reed Richards but he's not involved with science, which would be ridiculous. The EXTRA part is that, forget the genius scientist for awhile, Bruce Wayne is literally THE WORLDS GREATEST DETECTIVE. Bale has problems figuring things out and has no peripheral activity involving such a MAJOR trait of Wayne.

      Let's forget about the HUMONGOUS un-ignorable traits of Detective genius and Scientific genius. Which is like ignoring Sherlock Holmes mind and Mr. Fantastics mind, but let's just absolutely ignore it for a second. CONT--

      Delete
  31. CONT--
    .....let's just absolutely ignore it for a second. You oughtta re-look at Fact 3, somebody who says that is quite insane. That statement is essentially saying that he's become the maximum and greatest human animal in terms of physical body and mental intelligence. Aside from the resources of money, that statement is claiming that he/she has reached the pinnacle of both mental and physical peaks that a human could reach.

    This is why the BaleBegins people erased his Secret Origin, because in the Secret Origin of Bruce Wayne his personality had a very specific reaction to tragedy. Dozens of people have unfortunately suffered from a tragedy similar but NO ONE has really had the reaction of Bruce Wayne, which was to start training to become the HUMAN PRIME. Whatever a human being could do (be it lip read, speak 12 languages, juggle, hold your breathe the longest, etc.) Bruce decided to be able to do everything and master it so that he became an unstoppable force of justice. That's a very unusual reaction for someone who should be a victim.

    The secret origin has remain unaltered for over 70 years (details aside like if it was day or night when a bat came thru his window). Think about that: what kind of man does something like that???? A tragedy strikes and you go out and become the Human Prime? Breaking every world record that exists? From longest time to holding breath under water, to long jump, to vertical jump, Mile time, all weight lifting records, mastering Biology, becoming a brilliant physicist, the worlds top biomedical engineer, the worlds greatest escape artist, the master of disguise........I'll stop right there.

    You get the picture, they censored his origin because it DICTATES the characters mind. Bruce Wayne is about Self Reliance and will power to do the amazing in the name of love. Bale is not remotely close to that. Moreover,there are literally HUNDREDS of non-powered super heroes in both universes. So if there are so many of them being non powered, why do you think Batman would be any special? Because he's the only one who uses his supernatural physical prowess and his scientific genius. The only one. Otherwise he'd just be like any other non powered superhero.

    Bale is an imposter using the name. He fooled millions.

    batmanpp@yahoo.com

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  32. But he wasnt a complete loner like you say. He had Robin for most of his career after all and then Harold was helping him with his gadgets

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    1. I'm not sure if you are the same anonymous that I've been replying to so I'll just call you Anonomous2, if that's okay.

      Anonymous2, he WAS a complete loner because what I actually said was "he's like a loner who helps the underdog." -And Robin was the underdog. So was the scrappy Jason Todd and even the dreamer TimDrake. Batman takes these kids in because he helps the underdog. So if you re-look at my statement of saying he was a LONER it was in the clear context of developing himself or being able to do great things. He accepts help from no one, guidance from no one, assistance from no one (Michael Keaton knew this)he's a complete loner as far as his own personal awareness and figuring things out.

      But if you wanna talk about partners, sure he's not a loner Obviously: his best friend is SUPERMAN! How many countless cases have they solved together? Literally 30 years, that's how many. Plus He's on the JLA!! How many times have the JLA saved the world together? He allies himself with Commissioner Gordan, although he prolly doesn't TRULY need Gordan he understands the advantage of having a good man in Gotham on your side. Heck, he's had THREE partners and even trains Batgirl and Huntress. So I didn't say Batman's not some social recluse, he loves people of great strength and goodness and will befriend them easily.

      But he's still a loner regarding his abilities, he is super humanly SELF RELIANT, SELF SUFFICIENT, INDEPENDENT, IMMENSE WILL POWER GREATER THAN GREEN LANTERNS. Keaton certainly portrayed the gist of the character, I can't argue with that. But Bale? Don't make me laugh.

      (Anonymous2, if I was mistaken and you are actually the same Anonymous1, then I take it you concede to the logic of the truth if the only thing we can address is the loner thing?)

      Bale fooled millions despite the 65 years of massive evidence, consistency and success.

      batmanpp@yahoo.com

      Delete
  33. Ok, he might not need anyone in the comics (although I still dont fully agree with it cause Robin saved his butt many times and helped him out a lot), but Bale still has a lot of Batman in him. Hes got the anger, the physique and the good looks of a Playboy

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  34. Hey how ya doin,

    I think you have to have the general basics to have Bruce Wayne: and anger, physique and good looks of a Playboy are certainly not the basics. Actually Bale doesn't even have the Physique of Bruce Wayne either, Bale's portrayal was of a very, large, huge, meaty guy. See this bloggers sections "Batman's Physique" the blogger demonstrates how Bruce's Physique was never a large guy for 60 years, even since the original Bob Kane (who was even skinnier).

    So for "the anger,the physique and the good looks of a Playboy" we would scratch off 'physique' from there and now what we'd have left is "Anger and playboy good looks". Which really are not the basics for having Bruce Wayne. An angry playboy just isn't Batman.

    The 3 original facts I mentioned expose Bale as an imposter. Bale is NOT an extra-ordinary fellow, Bale doesn't have the psyche of a man who can break world records and become the Human Prime. Bale can't accomplish anything great and he'd be lost without all his people. And he most definitely doesn't possess impeccable logic. He's not a great scientist, or even a plain scientist (A high school Bio teacher knows more than him), and he certainly isn't a great Detective, which SHOWS he doesn't think like Bruce Wayne.

    Finding an angry playboy in comics could be Oliver Queen or easily an invented new character but it's NOT Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne is a story of an unusual person who had an amazing reaction to a tremendous tragedy. I mean who does that?? There are HUNDREDS of non-powered super heroes in both universes, so if there are so many of them being non-powered, what's so special about Batman? Well it's because he's the only one who uses his supernatural physical prowess and his scientific genius. The only one. Otherwise he'd just be like any other non powered superhero.

    As for Robin saving his butt a couple times, well so did Superman, and so did other superheroes, his friends on the JLA. I'm not saying he's a loner when going out in the field, again I'm saying he's a loner in figuring out himself and developing himself. He doesn't rely on a Katy HOlmes character to tell him what's right or wrong, he doesn't need MFreeman to know how to make gadgets, he makes them himself, he actually invents them. As far as self development he's a COMPLETE loner.

    Out in the field? Batman's got a whole posse: Nightwing, Drake, Huntress, Pagan, Chinese Batgirl, Oracle, Commish Gordan, and of course his buddy- SUPERMAN!! He's not a loner in that regard, though I think he operates more efficiently when alone, therefore he hooks up with all these other people because he's trying to be a leader. He takes in 3 Robins because he wants to make something out of them, he's a leader; he's big brother, he's Uncle, he's Dad, he's the Batman.

    And by the way, when Robin saves his ass on occasion it's only because Batman puts himself at risk in the first place because he already knows he's got Robin somewhere around. It's like in the Worlds Finest (the REAL one not that Jeph Loeb crap) he takes A LOT more risks, risks he would normally never take if Superman weren't around. Same with the JLA, he takes more risk because he knows he's on team of friends who can bail him out, team mates whom he knows he can rely on with his life. So when Robin saves batman it's because Batman intentionally takes greater risks to gain an advantage or to get farther in the case since he knows Robin's got his back.

    The basics of Bruce Wayne, Bale doesn't have. Yet somehow he fooled millions of people despite the long history of the character.

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  35. What you mentioned are not the basics. Those are learned skills but not the basics of the character. You seem to agree that a big part of Wayne's character is incredible motivation and determination. Wayne is someone whos mind is set on one target and who spent all of his life affected and devoted to that. Maybe Bale didnt train since a kid, but he showed incredible determination and will power once given a path. He climbed the mountain and conquered all the tests eventually becoming Ra's best student and defeated his master

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  36. "What you mentioned are not the basics. Those are learned skills but not the basics of the character" -- A persons skills exactly reflects his mind. So you are incorrect. Why do you think the Army makes you take those assessment test? They see what your character is like, or what your mind is like, to put you in the proper department or to determine your abilities.

    Person X's mind is very primitive and brute so he's a brick layer and he's good at it, Person Y's mind is very slick and smooth so he's a dancer. Person Z's mind is very open minded and attentive so he becomes a teacher.

    What your occupation is reflects your character a great deal, because your mind/character leads you to those learned skills. It's like how a Gay man would be a hair stylist where a strait man would never be one. And it's not some detail, like saying orange and apples. That's like saying Mohammed Ali is a wrestler not a boxer, "details details". Bull! The exact skill of boxing reflects the type of mind that Ali has, which is not the mind of a wrestler.

    You said "learned skills are not character" and yet any psychologist would disagree with you: the only reason one can even LEARN a skill is due to his mind or his character. The Army knows that, Psychology knows it, most people know it. Bottom line on the issue you bring up: YOU CANNOT DIVORCE A PERSONS ABILITY OF LEARNED SKILLS FROM A PERSONS PSYCHE OR CHARACTER.

    1. Say you dodge that issue for a second you STILL can't dodge the other RADICAL issues (which I covered): Fact 1 states Wayne has "the psyche to accomplish great things" which Bale is the opposite of. Bale simply does not posses the psyche to do any of the great things Bruce Wayne has accomplished. That's BIG dam thing.

    2. Let's say you dodge both those above issues for a second: Fact 1 also states that Bruce Wayne's psyche has the type of character to not only accomplish great things but to do those great things ALL ON HIS OWN. The basic of Bruce is that he is a self reliant individual with brutal confidence, he relies on no one and is completely INDEPENDENT. While Bale is like a whiner baby constantly relying on people surrounding him for human assistance. Bruce Wayne on the other hand figures out things by himself, and is self sufficient. THAT IS A HUGE THING TO ALTER OR MISS WHEN DOING BRUCE WAYNE, YOU'RE JUST NOT BRUCE WAYNE ANYMORE!!!

    3. Let's say you dodge all THREE of those above super huge BASICS. Denial would still have trouble getting over the most brutal fact; Bale does not THINK like the world greatest detective. So right there already exposes him as someone who simply does not think like Bruce Wayne since he can't think like the worlds greatest detective NOR can he think like the universe's most brilliant scientist. This once again ties in with his self reliance in how he'll figure things out ALL BY HIMSELF. His character and mind can not only figures things out like a genius but he does it by himself alone. If Sherlock Holmes did not have the mental capacity to be a detective: YOU JUST ALTERED HIS CHARACTER. That's just basic logic, not really an argument.

    4. Let's even allow you to dodge all FOUR of those SUPER HUGE BASICS. You still can't dodge one of the most EPIC reactions in comic book history! A tragedy struck young Wayne and this crazy f***** decides to become the Human Prime. Now do you REALLY think that THAT'S gonna be an easy task? SERIOUSLY? Bales character would never do that, it didn't even occur to him, he does not possess Bruce Wayne's mad resolve. I mean to master science and become literally a physical superhuman capable of great feats is NOT a normal reaction and it's very specific decision. Bruce Wayne's decision is radically different from Bale because one has the character capable of such a decision while the other doesn't. This is just coming all the way back to Fact 3.

    Further,Frank Castle lost..CONT

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  37. CONT- ....Castle lost his family and he dedicated his life to eliminating crime and it's supporters with severe determination but that doesn't mean he's Bruce Wayne.
    You say "Bale showed incredible determination and will power once given a path." So do terrorist, they lost their family or friends and they show incredible determination and will power once given a path. That alone could never show Bruce Wayne. That could easily mean we're looking at Dr. Doom or Lex Luthor, THEY have will power; heck I have will power! Michael Jordan,Mike Tyson,Green Beret has will power,we haven't isolated Bruce Wayne yet.

    You also said "He climbed the mountain and conquered all the tests eventually.." you're really gonna equal that to the Human Prime? C'mon, a dozen of NON powered super hero's can do that. That would never discriminate Bruce Wayne, that just describes the average super hero. And I've already said it here but; there are HUNDREDS of superheros without powers, what makes Batman any different, what's so special about BruceWayne? He's the ONLY one who relies on scientific mind and his near superhuman prowess. Otherwise he's just like yer average non powered superhero which Superman wouldn't care a dime to constantly consult with.

    And I haven't even BEGIN to cover a boat load of OTHER basics Bale completely lacks, but I don't have to touch that because he doesn't posses any of the regular basics of Bruce Wayne,
    I apologize for the long typing but you can't say I'm not thorough!

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  38. What makes Wayne different than other heroes is his dark mind, not when he started training. THIS is what separates hi from the others. He borderlines with a crazy villain who sometimes gets overtaken by anger but miracously holds back in the last moment and wont kill unless necessary.

    Thats what Bale does in the movie during Joker's interrogation. The only thing changed is the time when he started training. Once given a path he was so devoted to the cause he became the best of his kind and even defeated his master

    And he may not be some super detective but hes learning fast. As for moral support, everyone needs it and it makes him more human

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  39. "What makes Wayne different than other heroes is his dark mind" is absolutely WRONG. Frank Castle's mind is FAR FAR FAR darker than Wayne's, and it's funny how I actually told you that in the last response. I literally pointed him out (Castle is the PUNISHER if you didn't know that). What's more strange is that you actually IGNORED all 4 points that shut you down immediately.

    I JUST stated clearly FOUR simple points that have dictated the character for 60 years. You've chosen to ignore 4 simple points, 60 years, 10-20 versions of Bruce Wayne's secret origins that are ALL the same, and 3 initial facts that were first stated by me in my opening. THESE are numbers. Facts and objective numbers you are dodging and running from. I would appreciate the respect to at least acknowledge the points and the numerous facts that are shining in anybody's face.

    Points 1-4, Facts 1-3, 10-20 exact same origins, and OVER 60 years of consistent history. Every point that YOU mention I directly respond to, it would be nice for you to return the courtesy in a conversation.

    Well, to get back to what you just said of a dark mind then.....CONT-

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  40. CONT- ...you tried to say ""What makes Wayne different than other heroes is his dark mind" which is completely WRONG. Frank Castle's mind is way darker than Wayne's as THE PUNISHER is a sadistic mind who's darkness has reached the trenches of actual villainy. He's pretty much a serial killer combined with a Hit man.

    Wolverine's psyche is also way darker. The atrocities Logan had to commit for survival and for vengeance would give you nightmares. Both these men, if they are pushed jsut slightly or if you look at them the wrong way will gut you in rage then go along. Perhaps the DARKEST mind of all, the KING of VIGILANTES and the absolute ruler of DARKNESS is: the SHADOW. His slogan was "who knows what EVIL lurks in the hearts of men?...the shadow KNOWS."

    The Shadow knew every sin that you had committed and even knew what you WOULD commit because his dark mind could anticipate your guilt from his own experience as a villain. These are not small names, these are BIG time names in comics. There are HUNDREDS of heroes without powers and nearly half of them have minds of darkness, but that's not the reason why Superman, a near God, keeps running to Batman. Superman is not interested in dark minds, nor is the JLA in putting someone like that on the league. So what makes Wayne different from the hundreds of heroes without powers who have super dark minds? Well for one thing Batman DOESN'T HAVE A DARK MIND. Your statement is contrary to the comics....CONT-

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  41. There are different types of dark minds. Wayne's darkness is more Gothic. hes a man who retracts to the cave and associates with night creatures and lives by night. Castle's dark mind is dark in terms of violence and thirst for cold revenge. Hes no dracula like Batman

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  42. ....Wayne doesn't have a dark mind. Look at the very first issue of Batman, I refer to Batman #1. He's got a big old happy smile on his face, because he loves what he does. He loves being in a position of thwarting evil and fully knows the good he has done to improve the world.

    In fact, look at the very FIRST 30 issues of Batman, he's got a big old happy smile on his face for half of them! This is TWENTY years way before the pathetic Adam West (who made fun of Wayne for being so positive minded). A dark mind does not recruit a BRIGHTLY cladded young boy. That should say a lot to you, it's not rocket science. On top of that, for THIRTY YEARS the Worlds Finest is both Superman and Batman solving problems and never ONCE is Wayne a dark person, he's a fighter.

    In the Dark Knight Returns, he's merciless, tough, and super strict! All the while, he's having a dam good time. He's SMILING frequently, grinning, and just loves his job. From the 30's to the 40's to the 50's to the 60's to the 70's to the 80's to the 90's and even in 2000 Wayne has always been an overall POSITIVE mind, about 10-15% will have poor writers who try to make him dark contrary to his 60 year history.

    To say what makes Wayne different from other non powers is his darkness is to tell us all that you are not familiar with many of the popular heroes. Which is not even correct since he's actually not dark since his beginnings all the way for 60 years that you keep ignoring.

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  43. Hes shown as brooding often in the comics and in the older movies. Hes a character who holds a lot of demons inside and who likes to spend time alone. He only became a smiling character when the tone of the comic books got brighter. He has a rather hopefull than positive attitude that he will be enough to make a change, but hes no cheery sherlock holmes, at least not anymore, not like in the 50s or in Batman & Robin

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  44. "Hes shown as brooding often in the comics and in the older movies" -What older movies? There's only two old movies. The Adam West crap which didn't show any brooding, and the first original Batman movie (40's), which also did not show any brooding. So that statement is incorrect or made-up: there are no old movies showing a brooding Frank Castle-like person. You made that up.

    Then you say "Hes shown as brooding often in the comics" even as I had already pointed out the ORIGINAL BATMAN COMICS HE HAS NO BROODING. I mean, I literally stated Batman issue #1. It can't get older than that.

    Then in the 60's all the way into the 80's and 90's there's STILL rarely brooding. I mean sure, you'll find a spot or two, but not for 90% of his existence. I mean, from the 70's all the way to the 80's he and Superman have always been best friends and Batman is a VERY POSITIVE minded individual (U would have 2 be in order to become such a genius, a pessimist could never open his mind 2 anything). So,in the 70's -90's for every small spot of brooding that you may find you'll find 30 points of super positive attitude. NOT hopeful; but actually cheerful.

    There are hundreds of non powered super heroes who are just twisted dark people, and Batman is certainly not one of them. A dark mind doesn't recruit THREE brightly cladded happy side kicks...and a bat dog (which he did in both the 60's AND the 90's).There are hundreds of super heroes who have no powers at all so what makes Bruce Wayne any different: I've already said it so I won't repeat it.

    Christian Bale DID NOT BEHAVE LIKE BRUCE WAYNE. Bale did not have his personality/character/psyche therefore he had ZERO OF HIS ABILITIES. I hope you can respond to my previously listed facts. I would appreciate it rather than running from them.

    There IS one more new point that would embarrass Christian Bale vehemently...CONT-
    (batmanpp@yahoo.com 4got 2 sign my last few posts)

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  45. CONT-...the one pivotal point that easily would cause Bale to squirm in an interview is simply this: The JLA (Justice League of America)is consisted of a man who runs at the speed of light, a person who commands two thirds of the Earth, a woman who can juggle cars, and a man who actually flies in the air faster than a jet and has laser beams coming out of his eyes and can turn coal into diamond in his bare hands. Basically the JLA is a pantheon of GODS.

    (and I wasn't exaggerating when I said there's a man that moves at the speed of light) For this pantheon of nearly omnipotent GODS, why is it that......they all fear Bruce Wayne?

    HA! HAAAAA! HA HA HA! Bale would be pissing in his pants as if he were caught red handed. Bale would try to run out of the interview room if he couldn't think of good excuse or lie that wouldn't contradict his own movie. Wayne is a mere mortal amongst thousands of other flesh and blood mortal heroes, but THIS one particular mortal super heroe has the JLA, Gods I remind you, absolutely in FEAR OF BRUCE WAYNE. They each know, that the Spock-like guy in the corner with the zen coolness can take them all out.

    Bale would realize that his character is NOT Bruce Wayne, a man who makes Gods tremble. Literally Wayne has taken on Darksied, a NEW GOD of KIRBY's creations, and literally Wayne had defeated the New God Metron (by knocking him out I might add). Yes, Bruce Wayne is a bad ass, while Bale is some dude that if me and my neighbor had baseball bats, we could probably take Bale out.

    The Flash, Aquaman, Superman, Green Lantern, etc., all realize that had Batman wanted to, he could defeat them all at once in 20 minutes. His scientific mind has already conceived of 13 different ways to bring down any meta human, on top of the fact that he wouldn't even have to plan it, just total IMPROMPTU he could wipe them out. (Bare handed with no science tactics Batman has taken on the X-men, no weapons, no plan, total impromptu, he's the master of improvising)

    Let's forget the JLA for a second and just talk SUPERMAN here. Because if the JLA were to attack Bruce (it already happened and Batman took ALL the JLA'ers out) Superman would probably be the last man standing, he's the real challenge. So let's talk Supes; he's teamed up with bats in World's Finest for over 30 years; WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS? Why would a God like supes have an interest in a mere mortal?....CONT- for answer.

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    1. CONT-...Why would someone like Superman, a GOD, care to keep teaming up with one particular individual who doesn't even have powers???

      If I had super speed, can walk away from a nuclear bomb, and can crush diamond and gold, I'm not gonna care for some mortal man in a dam bat costume. The truth is; Supes keeps on and KEEPS on RUNNING to Batman for help time and time again. You gotta be something special to not have powers and earn the respect of a God like being. It's because Bruce Wayne is a genius Detective; NOT A NORMAL DETECTIVE, but the worlds greatest. It's because Bruce Wayne is the worlds most brilliant scientist, NOT AN AVERAGE SCIENTIST, but the most brilliant.

      But it's NOT even just the mental thing, it's also the physical aspect of Bruce Wayne that Superman fears bats. PHYSICALLY, Wayne has the most uncanny prowess and agility that he can outfox the gods of superior might. ANTAEUS was a brief member of the JLA who could punch Superman in space, and he had gone ballistic and tried to battle Batman, yet Batman maneuvered him like some slick ninja and Anteaeus could not TOUCH Wayne. (no utility belt there.)

      Without any use of weapons or gadgets Batman has taken on The HULK, hand to hand! And TWICE!!! As mighty as the Hulk is he could not defeat Bruce Wayne because his physical prowess was nearly supernatural and in fact Bruce Wayne beat the Hulk! Hulk had him in a crush hold, but using a genius move of Martial-Art-common-sense Batman stunned him and escaped.

      Etrigan the Demon can keep Superman in a headlock, and yet Batman had battled Etrigan one on one without any weapons. In a sparring match Bruce Wayne sparred with a lady who can punch Superman a mile away, this lady happened to be WonderWoman. Of course I just mentioned Batman taking on the X-men without any weapons, but then the OTHER Marvel character is CARNAGE, who is mightier than Spidey and Venom put together. Bruce Wayne defeated Carnage with his bare handed-Martial Arts and ZERO WEAPONS.

      Bruce Wayne is physically and mentally the utter human prime. If there is a thing that a human can do chances are Batman has mastered it, he has that particular character of mind. He speaks almost every language, he's an electronic whiz, he can tap dance, read lips, he can adapt any maneuver and copy it exactly for the first time, he can surf, beat you at pool, golf, basket ball, he's the ultimate athlete, he's the master of disguise, a legendary escape artist.

      This is why Supes respects even fears Bruce Wayne, he's one of THEE most formidable forces on the planet Earth, NOT because of some bat costume or money in the bank. Superman's words exactly- "b-batman...is the most...dangerous..man... on the p-planet" -JLA#3.

      Christian Bale? F**k it, I don't need my neighbor, I could beat Bale up with a crow bar, LOL. Bale couldn't even take on a bear! I THINK a bear is easy picking for ANY one of those super human beings. The Hulk would eat a bear for breakfast.

      The problem with most people is simply put; MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT A BATMAN IS. And that's Bale's problem, he has NO idea what a Batman is. If you spit these facts to him he'd be embarrassed. His,and most, get their education of Wayne from that thug in the animated series, instead of the 60-70 year SUCCESSFUL PRACTICE. No respect.

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  46. You seem to completely ignore that there were different incarnations of batman indifferent eras. You keep talking about a cheery Batman ith Robin and batdog on his side but you dont mention that the most popular and modern incarnation of the character is adark man who hides in the shadows, strikes poses like a bat and is filled wioth anger. Burton's and Nolan's movies showed him as that. The core caracteristics of the character are anger, darkness and unbreakable moral code. Not whether he can add to chemicals or not. Bales batman is extremely killed physically and gadgets dont make much of a difference His fight style and skills alone can take out mutliple thugs at the same time, even people who had the same training as he did (League of Shadows) and he even defeated his master. Theres far more similarities between bale and comic Batman than differences. Batman is a dark Dracula dress-alike who despite his temper and darkness does not kill. THAT is Batman.

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    1. "You seem to completely ignore that there were different incarnations of batman indifferent eras" Well it's funny you say that SINCE YOU SEEM TO IGNORE THAT FACT 2 WAS THE VERY FIRST THING I POSTED, WHICH ACTUALLY ADDRESSED THAT DIRECTLY.

      FACT 2 stated, and stated clearly, FACT 2) ALTHOUGH THERE HAVE BEEN DOZENS OF WRITERS AND ARTIST ALONG THOSE 60 YEARS, NEVERTHELESS THE PORTRAYAL OF WAYNE'S CHARACTER IS ALWAYS CONSISTENT FOR 60 YEARS PLUS.

      So you've ignored this outright and then go on to say I SEEM to ignore. How's that work?

      Delete
  47. Waynes character was NOT consistent throughout the history. If you look at 50s Batman you will see a happy and smiling detective eager to solver crimes with a little kid that he lives with. If you look at late 80s Batman hes a lone and dark figure

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    1. Incorrect. PLEASE do not quote facts until you actually check them. I own the 80's comics, he is NOT alone and miserable. He sides with Catwoman (actually dates her), Huntress, Green Arrow, The Outsiders (an entire band of superheroes), Aquaman, The JLA, and of course: Superman.

      Please don't quote the 80's til you check it, it's irresponsible and like what Bale essentially does; it's called lying.
      Some things change, but certain things remain the same: those are called basics. It's also called consistency.
      ------------------------
      ACCORDING TO YOU:
      "The core characteristics of the character are etc,...Not whether he can add to chemicals or not."

      Let's see if that works: "The core caracteristics of SHERLOCK HOLMES are etc,...Not whether he can solve mysteries or not"

      Let's try it again: "The core caracteristics of REED RICHARDS are etc,...Not whether he can add to chemicals or not"

      Well give it another shot: "The core caracteristics of IRON MAN are etc,...Not whether he can cross wires or not"

      One more time: "The core caracteristics of BRUCE LEE are etc,...Not whether he can do Kung Fu or not"

      Last chance: "The core caracteristics of MICHAEL JORDAN are etc,...Not whether he can shoot hoops or not"

      Obviously a heavily invalid statement. Funny how I actually already covered this though with the Gay hair stylist, Army, and Psychology. Weirder still how it was thoroughly covered and yet...it went completely ignored.

      Delete
    2. Completely incorrect. Core traits of Batman HAVE changed several times over the years, as a function of the direction that the comics go.

      What Bale presents onscreen is as accurate a portrayal of a pure, modern Batman as we are likely to get, and he does it through sheer intensity of performance and physical dedication, two inherent traits of the character.

      NOBODY wants to see a pure "detective Batman(Sherlock Holmes in a cape)" movie. If you THINK you do, you would be sorely mistaken when you watch it.

      Bale's Bruce Wayne is intelligent, driven, focused, and angry yet controlled. THIS is Batman, this is the Batman I want to read in comics and the Batman I want to see onscreen. It's also SO obvious that his character is way above what the average human can achieve, so don't go into that "Batman's too normal" crap, it's merely a contrast of an extraordinary character against the backdrop of an ordinary world.

      Not only is the psychology right for the character, so is the detective work. The forensic work has been impressive, as has been Bale's co-opting of Wayne tech., and his surveillance and interrogations. That's how ACTUAL detectives conduct an investigation, not some "connecting the dots" nonsense I see fans "wishing" for.

      His intellect is not something the filmmakers beat you over the head with, which is a nice thing for those of us who get tired of Robert Downey, Jr.'s incredibly insulting grasp of "science", but it seeps through the character's actions and vocal cadence. And then he's shown designing technology, taking fingerprints off of shattered bullets, innovating sonar imagery to cover an entire city, and patching software that had Lucius Fox scratching his head. So there is THAT.

      Combine all of that with his counter-terrorism/ninja approach to "predator" takedowns and this has been one badass Batman. I'm sorry that you can't appreciate it based on some ridiculous hang-ups.

      One other thing, he has NEVER been led around by Rachel in these films. Never. Alfred's influence stems from the source, as this is a figure that he truly respects and an opinion he values. But this Bruce Wayne/Batman does what he's gonna do, and everyone else can get over it(like the comics). An example would be ruining his birthday in Batman Begins, letting Harvey "take the fall" for being Batman in TDK, and continuing his arrogant crusade despite Alfred's plead in TDKR.

      If you can't accept the mainstay-like supporting role of the "conscience" character in film, or appreciate the different requirements between respective mediums, you may as well not even watch comic book adaptations. I, personally, am a fan of film, and thus I'm able to appreciate a good movie and respect artistic discretion. Comics weren't written as screenplays.

      Delete


    3. "Completely incorrect. Core traits of Batman HAVE changed several times over the years"



      OH REALLY? Him being a scientific genius has changed over 60 years? Wow, you're caught dead red handed there, since that's a CORE trait that has NOT changed over the years. Do the math: First comic books of Batman he has mastered science (By BOB KANE Himself in his actual SECRET ORIGIN) and then suddenly fast forward FIFTY years ahead to the DARK KNIGHT RETURNS where, as a Mad Scientist, he shows he could stop the world. From the very early origin alllllllllllllll the way to The DarK Knight Returns that had not changed, if you can count those years Do The Math, it remained as a CORE TRAIT. So you just lied when you said "Core traits of Batman HAVE changed several times over the years". And now fast forward PAST Drk Knight Returns alllllllllll the way to KINGDOME COME (one of the biggest block busters in comic book history) once again he's a technological wizard who makes Tony Stark look a retarded palsy. Let's fast forward again alllll the way to the first JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA comic (since it was shut down for a decade) and we see the Batman taking down the WHOLE JusticeLeagueOfAmerica by his wicked scientific genius. These are not small time comics by the way, these are LAND MARKS in comic book history and this CORE TRAIT remains the same over the period of 60 years, despite your lie of "Core traits of Batman HAVE changed several times over the years" to quote your words exactly. So that's 1.



      2. Moving on to his SUPER HUMAN PHYSIQUE. This guy is no Arnold Schwarzenegger or just some Olympic athelete. No, those type of guys are just average in the eyes of Bruce Wayne. HIS abilities have been frequently focused on being well passed the human limit, which was again in Bob Kane's SECRET ORIGIN alllllllllllll the way passed the year 2000. Yet another CORE TRAIT never once ababdoned, thus making your lie "Core traits of Batman HAVE changed several times over the years" as ridiculously ignorant. In 1970 Batman pushes his body to the human limit. In 1990 Batman lifts an enormous weight no human can lift. In 2012 Batman uses his legs to press an UNPRECEDENTED 2500 pounds. 50's, 60's, 70's. 80's, etc .....his peak level being passed the human physical limit is yet another CONSTANT trait never altered. Caught you dead there.



      3. Moving on to his extra ordinary skills as the worlds greatest detective. In the original Bob Kane comics he solves mysteries that the police cannot, then during the 60's he solves puzzles and riddles from his rogue gallery who challenged him which no regular detective could, then in 70's he can deterimine the identity of a culprit or culprits by mere incidental details that give them away. The 80's, such as DKR, his mind is like quicksilver being able to make conclusions on just the smallest facts, the 90's and onward, never changed. Him being the worlds greatest detective had never changed; Caught you dead there three times, for 3 CORE traits.



      Let's digress away from his psyche/character and go onto his specific visual...WHICH HAD NEVER CHANGED! The core trait that defines him visually is that he wears grey spandex and underwear. That's never ONCE changed!! At all! For his visual that's a very hardcore core trait, Pun Intended. 95% of the time he is wearing demonic LONG ears, GREY spandex, yellow compact belt, and BLUEunderwear and blue gloves and cape. For his visual it's a major CORE TRAIT, unchanged.



      I haven't even really DELVED into the CORE TRAITS and just with a mere 3-4 above this embarrasses the statement "Completely incorrect. Core traits of Batman HAVE changed several times over the years". You talk like someone who has only PERUSED through batman comic books. Given those mere 3 traits that have remained unchanged; Bale Begins obviously is talking about a totally different person.
      CONT--
      (Comics weren't written as screenplays)

      Delete
    4. "Comics weren't written as screenplays"

      So why did Superman the MOVIE prove you wrong? Good lord it won an academy award, was nominated by the Oscars, how could you not have a clue on that? And why do all the comic book movies from 1930's all the way to 2000 prove you wrong? Caught you dead there, son. SUPERMAN THE MOVIE AND ALL OF IT'S ILK CAUGHT YOU DEAD.


      " I personally am a fan of film, and thus I'm able to appreciate a good movie and respect artistic discretion"

      No one's telling you can't enjoy any movie you like, my friend. I too am personally a fan of film, and thus I'm able to appreciate a good movie and respect artistic discretion....but that doesn't justify a movie telling you a lie.



      "And then he's shown designing technology, taking fingerprints off of shattered bullets, innovating sonar imagery to cover an entire city, and patching software...So there is THAT."


      (let's just ignore that your cousin and my cousin can take finger prints off a bullet, because ANY human being can do that lol)

      First of all, he did not "innovate sonar imagery" all he did was hook up a few things in another way that it can work, like using a penny as a screw driver; that's not innovation. Like standing on a BOX as my ladder, it's just another way it can work. But what you say actually draws out a more important point: If you want to try and say the 3rd or 2nd films demostrate ANY one scene of him being science-smart then you just revealed that BaleBegins (1st film) is a lie and is crap, since he's NOT suppose to be one in there!!

      This is called shooting yourself in the foot: By trying to draw out examples in the 3rd or 2nd film of him being a scientist you strongly confirm the 1st film as being horribly false, because he knows nothing about science in there. In fact, there is ZERO indication of him being remotely familiar with academics, and in that 1st film there's actually TWO clear demonstrations that he's not suppose to know ANYTHING about science. Essentially, you point out that the filmakers realized that they made a HUGE mistake when they learned that Bruce Wayne is some kind of scientific genius and so they try to suddenly work it in, trying to cover up their mistake of lying in the 1st film. So IF we were to accept your submitted examples: It would automatically expose how BaleBegins is a complete fraud. Alas, we cannot even use that to expose it, because your two examples are not even valid. Desperately grabbing any straws, you're exaggerating those scenes.


      If you can't accept the mainstay characters in comic books, or appreciate the LACK of differences between respective mediums that the 1930's-2000 has proven excellently then don't try to defend films that fail at it miserably in comparison to them.



      I recommend a spin through a few of the most historical Batman comic books of all time so you can acquaint yourself of what a Bruce Wayne is and how he looks like. Hint: he's wearing grey spandex and blue underwear. Hint: CHRISTOPHER REEVE, Lynda Carter, Stallone, etc prove you wrong on how to adapt virtually on film with the courage of honesty. Last Hint: Batman is a COMIC BOOK character, please read some.
      batmanpp@yahoo.com

      Delete
  48. this incredibly long and boring anti-bale rant ruined this page for me.

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    1. Agree. GA should remove those trolling comments from the Bale-hating Anon

      Delete
    2. Sorry, but someone who defends the truth against a serious lie does not make him a hater.

      Actually, it's a natural reaction for someone who cares about morality and truth. If you don't mind your husband cheating on you or your wife cheating on you, then somethings not right with you.

      Severe discontempt against adultery, theft, and falsehood being propagated on a mass level is naturally expected from a man who cares about right and wrong. The final word is simply the truth that has been stated here, unless you can rebutt against Points 1-4, Facts 1-3, 10-20 exact same origins, and OVER 60 years of consistent history.

      batmanpp@yahoo.com

      Delete
    3. Batman is supposed to be the only super hero in the Nolan universe. He tried to make batman more real not a master of everything cuz thats not possible. With all the "facts" you stated, all the batman incarnations in movies are not batman! The closest one is BALE. He does have better detective skills than Keaton, Kilmer and cloony. Bale would toss Keaton around. Keaton walks around like robocot.he is really laughable as Batman. The only thing keaton has on him is his chemistry and technology smarts, but thats why Bale has Lucius! No one in the real world could be batman alone. In batman begins, it shows that bruce knows multiple languages, he beat ras with his detective skills! did you even watch the movies? And bale isnt even that big as you make him out to be, he looks slim in the TDK batman suit and he focuses on being faster and lighter than having full body armor suit thats safer. thats batman. he fights like batman. hes a HYPER-realistic version of batman, hes NOLANS/GROYER/Nolans batman. hes gotten stabbed, shot, hes has no cartilage in his damn knees and he still kicks ass. you could think hes not bruce or batman with your "facts", Batman could be interpreted anyway, none is more right than the other.

      Delete
    4. "He tried to make batman more real not a master of everything cuz thats not possible."

      His love for his parents actually makes that possible. That's the whole point of Batman; accomplishing the MAXimum human potential and the near impossible limits that he reached was his SPECIFIC demonstration for the love of his parents and for all that is right. And WOW, for you to actually say "not a master of everything cuz thats not possible" takes real guts or real stupidity; since FRANK MILLER would disagree with you, since NEAL ADAMS, the man who practically invented Batman would disagree with you, and Dennis Oniel would disagree with you and just about every Legend in the industry who help create the Batman's long egacy would disagree with that arrogant statement.


      "he beat ras with his detective skills! "

      LOL!!! NO he did NOT. I've seen the crap movie a dozen times trying to embrace it, and cringed every instant Liam Neesan and the rest of the crew showed that they did not even know how to pronounce the characters name! Ever see that commercial "I will do my best for the company Mister Dumb Ass, You're company is great Mr. Dumb Ass" and at the end the man corrects him and says " My name is DOOM AHS!" ? Imagine what kind of a boyfriend are you if you can't even pronounce your girl friends name?? All those involved w/BaleBegins didn't know ANYTHING about the basics of Bruce Wayne let alone who to pronounce the villains name. Keaton played a detective who studied his prey. Bale was helpless without all the people changing his diapers.



      "all Keaton has on him is his chemistry and technology smarts, but thats why Bale has Lucius!"

      Hilarious, since Lucius is not scientifically inclined in ANY way, he couldn't even fix a cell phone. THIS shows you know nothing about the Batman legacy. In the comics Lucias thinks Wayne is an idiot who plays golf and woos woman and could never change a tire, when all the while he fools Lucias Fox with the "Clark Kent" move and in truth Bruce Wayne can do more than just change a tire as he can invent the greatest devices in the world.

      What's more hilarious is when you say "all Keaton has on him is his chemistry and technology smarts" which is Batman's primary skill! It's like Bale plays a Superman who can't fly at all and you say " all Christopher Reeve has on him is his power of flight and invulnerability".
      So again, if you had ANY clue to who Lucias Fox is you would NEVER have said "that's why he has Lucious Fox since the reason he has Fox is to handle his money responsibly in Waynetech even tho he is a master of finances himself and a master of the corporate world. He leaves the Wayne business to him and the tech weaponry and crime fighting all to himself. Pick up a comic book man, that's a stupid basic like the Flash runs.


      "Batman could be interpreted anyway, none is more right than the other."

      If that were actually true then we can just make Steve Rogers a female chinese comedian who can't jump and is a girl who is bald. Sorry, you can't just interpret things any way you feel. Truth and fact is not something you can just make up willy nilly. Otherwise I can just cheat on my wife and say I don't interpret it as cheating, lol. "Yes, I had intercourse w/a woman who was not my wife because sex w/other woman can be interpreted anyway you want."


      "And bale isnt even that big as you make him out to be"

      http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2011/10/batmans-physical-appearance.html

      this shames you on your lie. Photo is just a fact my friend.

      Truth only hurts liars. With basic stuff and simple facts that existed before I was born there's nothing that you can invent, weave, or conjure to try and battle truth. All I have to do is spit out truth 4 every lie you whip up. Bale Begins is one giant lie.

      batmanpp@yahoo.com

      Delete
  49. DC NEEDS to stop making Batman and Superman movies so they can get a Justice League out there! I mean, look at how successful the Avengers was! I was so excited for it I went for the midnight premiere!

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  50. Got to say I really enjoy all of the articles here. IMO in terms of movies Keaton,Kilmer,Clooney,Bale. But I also like the 60's show that parodied the silver age and the original batman serials from the 40's. Great posts, but unfortuanately yea, I think the Nolan trilogy just didn't quite know what Batman was.

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    1. Yessir. FRANK MILLER agrees. Half the comic book industry agrees, thousands of Batman fans who own a hundred comics agree. You're not alone.

      Delete
  51. I dont get it. The article above pretty much shows perfectly how Bale is the closest one to Modern Age era Batman with minuscule variations to improve the character. Whats all the BS talk in the comments section about him not being like Batman? The proof for the opposite is right there at the top!

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    1. "I dont get it. The article above pretty much shows perfectly how Bale is the closest one to Modern Age era Batman" Uhh, actually it didn't. The article literally states Bale is opposite of the comic book and tells a different story.

      And BaleBegins is "with minuscule variations" now that's not an exageration from you, it's a complete lie. Batman wears spandex tights and Bale wears armor over every inch of him: Bale being a metallic tortoise is a minuscule variation? No. Batman is the universe's most brilliant scientist while Bale ain't, and you call that a minuscule variation? Nope.

      Bale speaks w/a wretched troll voice while the Batman never speaks in a hoarse voice and that's a minuscule variation? Uh uh.

      Minuscule variations indeed.

      Delete
    2. batmanpp@yahoo.com

      Delete
  52. The bashing posts should be deleted and "batmanpp" guy banned for trolling

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    1. Sorry, but stating statistics and quoting facts and doing so constantly is NOT called trolling. Someone who hates the truth and wants the guy saying it to shut up is worse than any kind of trolling: That's called bullying, concealing, and censorship. If you can't handle the truth, just go home. No one's forcing you to read or to type.
      batmanpp@yahoo.com

      Delete
  53. To some of the haters posting in the comments: How is Bale not similar to comics Batman at all? You must be kidding when you say that. Just because he didnt build his stuff doesnt mean hes not the comic books Batman. Hes got the character down and everything. He has the anger, strong moral code and is good with detective work and technology (he figured out who Catwoman is and fixed the Bat)

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    1. Hello dude,
      Just so that you know people who fight to speak truth are not haters. You would only see defenders of truth as haters if you were supporter of a lie.

      Anyways, to answer your question "How is Bale not similar to comics Batman at all?" The answer was thoroughly written already with "I stated clearly FOUR simple points that have dictated the character for 60 years. You've chosen to ignore 4 simple points, 60 years, 10-20 versions of Bruce Wayne's secret origins that are ALL the same, and 3 initial facts that were first stated by me in my opening."

      Those 3 INITIAL FACTS (which were stated in captial letters) basically shut Bale down. Then the 4 numbered Points REALLy shut bale down. Then the question that is "the one pivotal point that easily would cause Bale to squirm in an interview" said it all. You can copy/paste that quote+Control F it.

      Btw you said "Just because he didnt build his stuff doesnt mean hes not the comic books Batman", let's just hear how silly that is "Just because TonyStark didnt build his stuff doesnt mean hes not the comic books Iron man". That's you're exact sentence. Let's try it with Mr. Fantastic "Just because ReedRichards didnt build his stuff doesnt mean hes not the comic books Mr.Fantastic". Without the ability you're not the character. you aint Aquaman if you can't breathe under water. Period.

      The 3 hard opening Facts, the 4 numbered points, 10-20 published Secret Origins ALL being the same, 90% consistancy for 60 years of comic books, all ruins Bale Begins.

      You can't escape that above. The source material does not support Bale Begins.

      Delete
  54. The source material DOES support C.Bale and Nolan's trilogy, you moron-hater. I can't believe there is still people out there convinced that T.Burton read lots of comic books and was true to the essence of the character, and then deny the Nolan bros. and D.Goyer actually DID that more than their colleagues.

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    Replies
    1. "The source material DOES support C.Bale" of course, since the SOURCE MATERIAL IS OF THE UNIVERSE'S MOST GENIUS SCIENTIST AND C.BALE IS A GENIUS SCIENTIST, RIGHT? I thought so.

      And of course the SOURCE MATERIAL is of the WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE and C.BALE is THE WORLDS GREATEST DETECTIVE, RIGHT? Yeah, I thought so.

      And of course the SOURCE MATERIAL has been speaking of a man who is totally SELF RELIANT and completely INDEPENDANT relying on no guidance from anyone for 65 years of publishing which C.BALE was doing when he was constantly dependent on his support group. That's what I though fellah.

      And of course the SOURCE MATERIAL is about a man who is a genius inventor who builds+designs his own gadgets that are so brilliant they seem outrageous for 65 years, while C.BALE did the same as THE SOURCE MATERIAL. I thought not, idiot.


      Not to mention the SOURCE MATERIAL has Lucian Fox as totally incompetent and INEPT to anything mechanical or electronical, while NOLANS TRILOGY shows Morgan Freeman reflecting the source material, right? UH HUH, that's what I thought.

      Since Batman doesn't rely on brawn, like Superman and Hulk, he's therefore a SUPREME BRAINIAC who is unmatched in strategy and unbeatable for the game of chess and can hack any program, decipher any code, all in the age old SOURCE MATERIAL, and C.BALE showed us a super brainiac too didn't he? Oh that's right, he DIDN'T!! He was a palsy!

      And of course, the SOURCE MATERIAL has spoken of a man who is nearly Super Human physically for 65 years plus, and C.BALE gave us a near superhuman as well, didn't he? Oh, that's right he didn't. You'll see 50x more Batman in watching ENTER THE DRAGON than you will C.Bale. ENTER THE DRAGON that there is frikin Batman.

      In the SOURCE MATERIAL Wayne was never afraid of Bats, while C.BALE is like a criminal terrified of them. The list goes on buddy, should we continue?

      We didn't even start on the VISUAL!! lol. Massive failure there! You DID read the article of this blog at the very top, right? It literally states how C.BALE IS NOTHING LIKE THE COMIC BOOK, that's what source material means; DUH.

      You're ignorant or in serious denial IF you cowardly evade the previously stated 3 hard opening Facts (all in caps), the 4 numbered points, the 10-20 published Secret Origins ALL being constantly the same, and the 90% consistency in 60 years of comic books. IF you evade those...then you're in denial. Those are plain simple facts. You can't rebutt against Points 1-4, Facts 1-3, 10-20 exact same origins, and OVER 60 years of consistent history, now can you?

      Next time you say "The source material DOES support C.Bale" actually LOOK at the source material and learn your basic facts first, those facts existed long before you were ever born. THE SOURCE MATERIAL DOES NOT SUPPORT BALES PERFORMANCE. In fact, Bales performance is starkly contrary to it. Pick up a comic book please.

      C.Bale was awesome in EQUILIBRIUM and T3, and many other things but......Batman he ain't.

      batmanpp@yahoo.com

      Delete
    2. batmanpp@yahoo.com What you don't understand is that it wasn't suppose to be a movie of Bruce Wayne or Batman. So how about laying off "Bale Begins", as you call it, at least for your own sake. Because Nolan and Bale were not doing an actual movie of the long standing character, they were trying to create something that was more digestable than the actual Bruce Wayne.

      If you think about it, not everyone likes charcters like Bruce Wayne, Bruce Lee (per your Enter The Dragon reference), Arnold Schwarzenneger, James Bond, Rambo, etc. There are some people in the world who like characters of a more soap-opera nature and Nolan&Bale had created a character of great melo drama rather than a Superhero. Arnold Schwarzzenger, Bruce Lee, etc are all in the category that Bruce Wayne is in: something amazing, extra ordinary, and very unique. As you've pointed out, Bruce Wayne made an early decision as a boy to become the worlds greatest Scientist and break all world records of the human body as his own personal response to his dire tragedy and to honor the love of his parents, and thus becoming a virtual Superhero when reaching his adulthood. But Christian Bale does not play this character of the comics because the angle THEY decided to create was one more of angst and very powerful melo drama. Once you understand that, you'll understand the Bale movie is not suppose to be the real Bruce Wayne, meaning you're just wasting your breathe reacting to it as if he was.

      Bare in mind, there are many people, like yourself, who love superhero characters such as those Arnold Schwarzzeneger films, the Bond films, and of course the Bruce Wayne character in the comics, but THEN there's a group of people who don't really fancy that type of "amazingness" and are just looking for something closer to mundane, more ordinary, and more docile. Such a movie would focus more on drama, dialouge, and soap opera type stuff. And that's exactly what you have with the Nolan films. A hard drama film about an ordinary man who somehow manages to put on a bat suit and luckily gets by with all the help of his "support group", as you so aptly put it. And yes I know, and every other comic book fan knows, that Bruce Wayne is a self-made man with unbelievable will power to shape himself into all those things all on his own. I know and you know, and every Batman comic fan knows, that Bruce Wayne is the most dangerous man on Earth, but you can't expect people who never read the comic book to know all that, especially when the subject is on the Bale movie, which is completely seperate from the character in the comics in tone, nature, and intention. The intention of the Nolan films is to give stryking performances about a NORMAL man who can't operate on the level of a superhero, and thus it creates a story of it's own with a dire journey of confusion and a resolution of that confusion. If you want the superhero Batman or the Bruce Wayne of the comics that's been going on strong for sixty odd years then you'll have to wait until someone makes another Michael Keaton film (technically Burton is still making a lot of great movies). So no one is going to rebutt your facts and your points because no can rebutt facts.
      We can only check and confirm them.

      For you and the rest of the bat fans commenting on here-

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    3. to conclude-

      For you and all the bat fans commenting on here I can understand where you're coming from logically, but it's not supposed to be Bruce Wayne. I know even Frank Miller disagreed w/the film, but if you, Frank Miller, the legion of bat fans, and all comic fans alike are all going into the film expecting to see the Neal Adams Batman, the Bob Kane Batman, the Jim Aparo Batman, or the Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller, then you'll be sorely disappointed and you're looking at the wrong film.

      This is not suppose to be the comic book character, this is much closer to the animated series w/bruce timm character, which basically is a normal guy with muscles and money. So the animated series and the Bale movie are essentially brothers to each other in the media. The Bale movie accomplished exactly what it set out to accomplish; a somber tale of a basically normal guy who stumbles and trips through his dark journey with the highly dramatized tones of angst and melo drama but having the aid of multiple individuals he can find his way to consolidating both confronting crime and finding peace.

      Delete
    4. Then why call him 'Batman' or 'The Dark Knight'? There were and still are arguments that the Burton films didn't stay true to the source material, these arguments always are used to try to prove Nolan's was more true. Based on the conflicting arguments regarding all the films, it means we have yet to have a true Batman/BW story brought to the big screen.

      Delete
    5. No movie is 100% but many films prior to 2000 have been 99% accurate, so the single BURTON film was overall correct w/all the basics. The Nolan film didn't even get half of it right.

      To answer your question: why call him the "Batman", it's because he's not afraid of the bats and it's his own ingenuity to frighten the guilty, thus the Bat creature. Your other question, then why call him the "Dark Knight", because he's a Knight, a hero. That's why. A knight is a hero. And it's called "dark", because to the criminals they see their own DARKNESS, they see the reflection he brings. Batman HIMSELF is not Dark. He loves children, he loves his work, he's happy about it, he does not suffer angst or cry and complain about things, he mans up. IF YOU LOOK AT BATMAN#1, the original comic, he's got a big old smile on his face and held that smile for 20 yrs since. Then after his smile became even more clever.

      Batman is called the dark night because the enemy who fears him are dark, not him. He just shows them their own darkness w/the bat image. Just ask Denny Oniel himself, as he's said Batman is not Dark, he operates in darkness. He proves them wrong by never becoming dark.

      Delete
  55. The 60 yr consistent character in the comic books called Bruce Wayne and Chris Bale are leagues apart.

    No similarities.

    ReplyDelete
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